Jordan Peterson and Sam Harris Try to Find Something They Agree On

Last updated: Dec 26, 2023

The video is about Jordan Peterson and Sam Harris discussing their mutual understanding of morality and religion. They explore the distinction between good and evil, and how it is characterized and what it means in terms of belief. They also discuss the difference between religious experience and dogmatic totalitarianism, and the role of meditation in understanding this distinction. The conversation touches on Sam's personal life and his experience with meditation, and how it has contributed to his understanding of morality and religion.

This video by Jordan B Peterson was published on Dec 25, 2023.
Video length: 02:08:33.

 

Jordan Peterson and Sam Harris discuss their mutual understanding of morality and its distinction from good and evil.

They explore the idea of religious experience and its value, as well as the counterproductive nature of totalitarian dogmatism.

They also discuss their personal lives and how they find fulfillment in their work.

 

  • Jordan Peterson is announcing a new tour for 2024.
  • He will be visiting 51 cities in the US.
  • The tour will be used to walk through some of the ideas in his forthcoming book, "Who Wrestles with God."
  • The tour will also include information about ticketing and more details can be found on his website, jordanbpeterson.com.
  • Many well-educated people make fine grain distinctions about moral norms in the context of 21st century America.
  • Words like violence and misgendering are considered microaggressions.
  • However, when asked to consider someone like Malala Yousafzai, they become tongue-tied.
  • Jordan Peterson and Sam Harris have spoken many times publicly in the past, trying to sort out their mutual understanding in relationship to topics such as morality.
  • Despite their differences, they both believe that there is a true and not merely relative distinction between good and evil.
  • They differ to some degree in how that distinction might be characterized and what it means with regard to belief.
  • Jordan Peterson is interested in trying to understand Sam Harris's objections to religious propositions.
  • Sam is committed to what he describes as a religious practice, despite being an avid meditator and believing that spiritual experience is real.
  • They will discuss the distinction between dogma and knowledge, and try to lay that all out with foray into the domains of well meditative practice and with the occasional description and discussion of the political.
  • Jordan Peterson has managed to align his needs and wants in his life.
  • He attributes this alignment to his practice of meditation.
  • Peterson has been concentrating on his interests and needs for a long time.
  • He has built out platforms where he can follow his interests and needs.
  • Peterson sees his podcast and app as applied philosophy platforms.
  • Peterson's platforms are not just focused on meditation.
  • They are platforms for applied philosophy and engaging with the world.
  • Peterson's interactions with the world are positive and valuable.
  • He has found a place where what he has to give is found valuable by others.
  • Peterson's platforms have been running for five years.
  • Peterson has had a positive encounter with legions of people.
  • People value what he is putting out and pay him for it.
  • Peterson's platforms are a transaction that makes everyone happy.
  • He cannot stay in the lane of his bakery business.
  • Peterson feels a need to comment on other topics of social importance.
  • Peterson has a career where he doesn't get any grief from the world.
  • People understand what he is putting out and like it.
  • Peterson gets paid for what he does.
  • He has a foot in the water of other topics of social importance.
  • Peterson is doing his podcast for that but also has other channels.
  • Jordan Peterson and Sam Harris discuss their mutual understanding of morality and religion.
  • They explore the distinction between good and evil and how it is characterized.
  • They discuss the difference between religious experience and dogmatic totalitarianism.
  • The conversation touches on Sam's personal life and his experience with meditation.
  • Jordan Peterson and Sam Harris agree that it is important to aim up and engage in positive discussions.
  • Jordan Peterson and Sam Harris both agree that it is important to aim up and engage in positive discussions.
  • They find it helpful to be in a domain that is entirely positive.
  • They both engage in discussions about their waking up system.
  • Jordan Peterson finds it interleaved with some degree of combat on the philosophical and cultural war side of things.
  • They both find it better to balance positive and negative discussions.
  • Jordan Peterson and Sam Harris both find it better to balance positive and negative discussions.
  • They believe that balance is necessary for their own well-being.
  • They both find that there are certain moments that interest them that don't belong on their podcast.
  • Jordan Peterson finds that when he doesn't have an opportunity to blurt out his instantaneous response to something, it allows his response to cure over the course of days.
  • They both find that many things don't survive the test of time and that it is better to not weigh in on every indiscretion committed.
  • Jordan Peterson deleted his Twitter account.
  • He found that not being on Twitter has been almost unambiguously positive.
  • He finds that when he doesn't have an opportunity to blurt out his instantaneous response to something, it allows his response to cure over the course of days.
  • He finds that many things don't survive the test of time and that it is better to not weigh in on every indiscretion committed.
  • He finds that he is happier since deleting his Twitter account.

Jordan Peterson & Sam Harris Try to Find Something They Agree On | EP 408 - YouTube

Jordan Peterson & Sam Harris Try to Find Something They Agree On | EP 408 001

Jordan Peterson's New Tour

  • Jordan Peterson is announcing a new tour for 2024, starting in early February and running through June.
  • He will be visiting 51 cities in the US.
  • The tour will be used to walk through some of the ideas in his forthcoming book, "Who Wrestles with God."
  • The tour will also include information about ticketing and more details can be found on his website, jordanbpeterson.com.
Jordan Peterson & Sam Harris Try to Find Something They Agree On | EP 408 002

Moral Confusion

  • Many well-educated people make fine grain distinctions about moral norms in the context of 21st century America.
  • Words like violence and misgendering are considered microaggressions.
  • However, when asked to consider someone like Malala Yousafzai, they become tongue-tied.
Jordan Peterson & Sam Harris Try to Find Something They Agree On | EP 408 004

Jordan Peterson and Sam Harris

  • Jordan Peterson and Sam Harris have spoken many times publicly in the past, trying to sort out their mutual understanding in relationship to topics such as morality.
  • Despite their differences, they both believe that there is a true and not merely relative distinction between good and evil.
  • They differ to some degree in how that distinction might be characterized and what it means with regard to belief.
Jordan Peterson & Sam Harris Try to Find Something They Agree On | EP 408 005

Jordan Peterson & Sam Harris Try to Find Something They Agree On | EP 408 - YouTube

Jordan Peterson and Sam Harris's Discussion

  • Jordan Peterson is interested in trying to understand Sam Harris's objections to religious propositions.
  • Sam is committed to what he describes as a religious practice, despite being an avid meditator and believing that spiritual experience is real.
  • They will discuss the distinction between dogma and knowledge, and try to lay that all out with foray into the domains of well meditative practice and with the occasional description and discussion of the political.
Jordan Peterson & Sam Harris Try to Find Something They Agree On | EP 408 006

Jordan Peterson's Attitude and Patterns of Attention

  • Jordan Peterson has managed to align his needs and wants in his life.
  • He attributes this alignment to his practice of meditation.
  • Peterson has been concentrating on his interests and needs for a long time.
  • He has built out platforms where he can follow his interests and needs.
  • Peterson sees his podcast and app as applied philosophy platforms.
Jordan Peterson & Sam Harris Try to Find Something They Agree On | EP 408 008

Expansion of Topics and Interactions

  • Peterson's platforms are not just focused on meditation.
  • They are platforms for applied philosophy and engaging with the world.
  • Peterson's interactions with the world are positive and valuable.
  • He has found a place where what he has to give is found valuable by others.
  • Peterson's platforms have been running for five years.
Jordan Peterson & Sam Harris Try to Find Something They Agree On | EP 408 009

Positive Encounter with Legions of People

  • Peterson has had a positive encounter with legions of people.
  • People value what he is putting out and pay him for it.
  • Peterson's platforms are a transaction that makes everyone happy.
  • He cannot stay in the lane of his bakery business.
  • Peterson feels a need to comment on other topics of social importance.
Jordan Peterson & Sam Harris Try to Find Something They Agree On | EP 408 011

Jordan Peterson's Career and Interests

  • Peterson has a career where he doesn't get any grief from the world.
  • People understand what he is putting out and like it.
  • Peterson gets paid for what he does.
  • He has a foot in the water of other topics of social importance.
  • Peterson is doing his podcast for that but also has other channels.
Jordan Peterson & Sam Harris Try to Find Something They Agree On | EP 408 012

Jordan Peterson and Sam Harris's Understanding of Morality and Religion

  • Jordan Peterson and Sam Harris discuss their mutual understanding of morality and religion.
  • They explore the distinction between good and evil and how it is characterized.
  • They discuss the difference between religious experience and dogmatic totalitarianism.
  • The conversation touches on Sam's personal life and his experience with meditation.
  • Jordan Peterson and Sam Harris agree that it is important to aim up and engage in positive discussions.
Jordan Peterson & Sam Harris Try to Find Something They Agree On | EP 408 013

The Importance of Positive Discussions

  • Jordan Peterson and Sam Harris both agree that it is important to aim up and engage in positive discussions.
  • They find it helpful to be in a domain that is entirely positive.
  • They both engage in discussions about their waking up system.
  • Jordan Peterson finds it interleaved with some degree of combat on the philosophical and cultural war side of things.
  • They both find it better to balance positive and negative discussions.
Jordan Peterson & Sam Harris Try to Find Something They Agree On | EP 408 015

The Balance between Positive and Negative Discussions

  • Jordan Peterson and Sam Harris both find it better to balance positive and negative discussions.
  • They believe that balance is necessary for their own well-being.
  • They both find that there are certain moments that interest them that don't belong on their podcast.
  • Jordan Peterson finds that when he doesn't have an opportunity to blurt out his instantaneous response to something, it allows his response to cure over the course of days.
  • They both find that many things don't survive the test of time and that it is better to not weigh in on every indiscretion committed.
Jordan Peterson & Sam Harris Try to Find Something They Agree On | EP 408 016

Jordan Peterson's Experience with Twitter

  • Jordan Peterson deleted his Twitter account.
  • He found that not being on Twitter has been almost unambiguously positive.
  • He finds that when he doesn't have an opportunity to blurt out his instantaneous response to something, it allows his response to cure over the course of days.
  • He finds that many things don't survive the test of time and that it is better to not weigh in on every indiscretion committed.
  • He finds that he is happier since deleting his Twitter account.
Jordan Peterson & Sam Harris Try to Find Something They Agree On | EP 408 017

Jordan Peterson and Sam Harris's Understanding of Morality and Religion

  • Jordan Peterson and Sam Harris discussed their mutual understanding of morality and religion.
  • They explored the distinction between good and evil and how it is characterized.
  • They discussed the difference between religious experience and dogmatic totalitarianism.
  • The conversation touched on Sam's personal life and his experience with meditation.
  • Jordan Peterson and Sam Harris agreed that much of the negativity in their lives was a result of something they had done or seen on Twitter.
Jordan Peterson & Sam Harris Try to Find Something They Agree On | EP 408 019

Jordan Peterson's Experience with Twitter

  • Jordan Peterson noticed in retrospect that his digital existence was claiming too much real estate in his conception of himself as a person.
  • He agreed with Sam Harris that much of the negativity in his life was a consequence of Twitter.
  • Jordan Peterson uses Twitter to stay informed about current events and cultural events.
  • He learned from walking through airports with his wife that he should ignore or shut up about things that annoy him but are not important enough to sit down and write about.
  • Jordan Peterson believes that Twitter encourages impulsive and immediate responses to things that are perhaps of sufficient seriousness that they should only be taken seriously.
Jordan Peterson & Sam Harris Try to Find Something They Agree On | EP 408 020

Jordan Peterson's Responsibility to Bring to Light Certain Elements of the Culture War

  • Jordan Peterson feels that he has a responsibility to bring to light certain elements of the culture war that are going on at a deep level.
  • He uses Twitter to do this but acknowledges that it has the problem of intense negativity.
  • Jordan Peterson learned from walking through airports with his wife that he should ignore or shut up about things that annoy him but are not important enough to sit down and write about.
  • He believes that Twitter encourages many things that ultimately produce some consequential delusions for us individually and at scale.
  • Jordan Peterson believes that Twitter provides a kind of an illusion of conversation because you know you'll tweet something at me, I'll tweet something at you, and it seems like you're talking but you're primarily talking in front of your respective audiences which are largely different.
Jordan Peterson & Sam Harris Try to Find Something They Agree On | EP 408 022

Jordan Peterson's Personal Life and Experience with Meditation

  • Jordan Peterson's personal life was affected by the sickness of the people close to him.
  • He noticed in retrospect that his digital existence was claiming too much real estate in his conception of himself as a person.
  • Jordan Peterson has had many discussions with his family about Twitter.
  • He uses Twitter to stay informed about current events and cultural events.
  • Jordan Peterson has a conversation with his wife at airports about Twitter and their decision was if I'm in an airport and something happens that annoys me but isn't important enough to actually sit down and write about then I should ignore it or shut up about it.
Jordan Peterson & Sam Harris Try to Find Something They Agree On | EP 408 023

Jordan Peterson's Rule of Thumb for Twitter

  • Jordan Peterson suggested that a good rule of thumb is if you're not willing to sit down and think about it for an hour, then perhaps it's not important enough to share your opinion with millions of people and reap the consequences.
  • He believes that Twitter encourages impulsivity.
  • Jordan Peterson believes that Twitter does not facilitate responsibility.
  • He believes that Twitter provides a kind of an illusion of conversation.
  • Jordan Peterson believes that Twitter encourages many things that ultimately produce some consequential delusions for us individually and at scale.
Jordan Peterson & Sam Harris Try to Find Something They Agree On | EP 408 024

The Problem with Performative Conversations

  • Performative conversations degrade the good faith characteristics of a real conversation.
  • People wind up scoring points on each other and the focus becomes on distorting their opponent's views.
  • Dishonesty is encouraged and people select for a kind of dishonesty.
  • People don't feel much of a need to get their opponent's position correct before savaging it.
  • People use clips of their opponent that have been artfully edited to smear them.
Jordan Peterson & Sam Harris Try to Find Something They Agree On | EP 408 026

The Impact of Social Media

  • Social media encourages a kind of dishonesty.
  • People are more likely to distort their opponent's views.
  • People are more likely to use clips of their opponent that have been artfully edited.
  • People are more likely to select for a kind of dishonesty.
  • People are more likely to score points on each other.
Jordan Peterson & Sam Harris Try to Find Something They Agree On | EP 408 027

The Reinforcement Cycle

  • The reinforcement cycle has eroded our capacity to speak rationally to one another.
  • It has produced a machine for amplifying the narcissistic tendency of everyone wanting to just manufacture outrage.
  • It has set up virtual environments that aren't well matched to the underlying reality.
  • It has capitalized on the immediacy of response.
  • It has proportionate to the degree to which a social media communication system capitalizes on immediacy of response.
Jordan Peterson & Sam Harris Try to Find Something They Agree On | EP 408 028

The Impact of Social Media on Society

  • It has led to a kind of performative behavior.
  • It has led to a kind of performative conversation.
  • It has led to a kind of performative outrage.
  • It has led to a kind of performative narcissism.
  • It has led to a kind of performative distortion.
Jordan Peterson & Sam Harris Try to Find Something They Agree On | EP 408 030

The Impact of Social Media on Communication

  • Social media has enabled the rise of psychopathic behavior, including trolling and causing trouble online.
  • Research literature suggests that people who are most likely to troll online are dark tetrad types, who are malignant, narcissistic, psychopathic, and sadistic.
  • Social media can also facilitate polarization in the broader culture by driving fragmentary psychopathic tendencies to a greater degree.
  • Online and offline interactions can have vastly different outcomes, with online interactions often being more negative than offline interactions.
  • Twitter can bring out the worst in people, even those with real reputations, causing harm to their lives and others.
Jordan Peterson & Sam Harris Try to Find Something They Agree On | EP 408 031

The Impact of Social Media on Elon Musk

  • Elon Musk's engagement with Twitter has been catastrophic for him as a person, causing him to become addicted to the platform.
  • Musk's use of Twitter has been irresponsible, producing harm to others' lives.
  • Musk has boosted the profiles of anonymous trolls, contributing to the rise of psychopathic behavior online.
  • Musk's interactions with people on Twitter have been cavalier, despite knowing the harm it can cause.
  • Musk's use of Twitter has been a significant factor in the rise of polarization in the broader culture.
Jordan Peterson & Sam Harris Try to Find Something They Agree On | EP 408 033

Jordan Peterson's Compulsive Use of Twitter

  • Jordan Peterson's use of Twitter has become compulsive and has led to a degradation of his reputation in most circles.
  • He has found Twitter to be the most addictive thing in his life and has been willing to torch relationships over his use of it.
  • Jordan Peterson has produced many useful things, and he is too embedded with things that everyone still wants, but if he were less productive, he would be seen as the next Alex Jones in terms of mainstream culture's view.
  • Jordan Peterson has found Twitter to be the most addictive thing in his life and has been willing to torch relationships over his use of it.
  • Jordan Peterson has found Twitter to be the most addictive thing in his life and has been willing to torch relationships over his use of it.
Jordan Peterson & Sam Harris Try to Find Something They Agree On | EP 408 034

The Dangers of Twitter

  • Twitter has a propensity to bring out the worst in people and the worst in the culture.
  • Twitter has a propensity to bring out the worst in people and the worst in the culture.
  • Twitter has a propensity to bring out the worst in people and the worst in the culture.
  • Twitter has a propensity to bring out the worst in people and the worst in the culture.
  • Twitter has a propensity to bring out the worst in people and the worst in the culture.
Jordan Peterson & Sam Harris Try to Find Something They Agree On | EP 408 035

Jordan Peterson's Search for an Objective Foundation for Moral Claims

  • Jordan Peterson was driven to search for an objective foundation for moral claims primarily because he had become convinced of the existence of evil in the world.
  • Jordan Peterson was driven to search for an objective foundation for moral claims primarily because he had become convinced of the existence of evil in the world.
  • Jordan Peterson was driven to search for an objective foundation for moral claims primarily because he had become convinced of the existence of evil in the world.
  • Jordan Peterson was driven to search for an objective foundation for moral claims primarily because he had become convinced of the existence of evil in the world.
  • Jordan Peterson was driven to search for an objective foundation for moral claims primarily because he had become convinced of the existence of evil in the world.
Jordan Peterson & Sam Harris Try to Find Something They Agree On | EP 408 037

The Islamic Doctrines of Martyrdom and Jihad

  • The Islamic doctrines of martyrdom and Jihad are sincerely believed by millions of people.
  • These beliefs have real consequences in the world and they're not good ones.
  • Jordan Peterson believes that these beliefs are a form of masochistic delusion.
  • The postmodernist truth claims about the relativity of everything have left us with no solid ground to stand on when making claims about right and wrong and good and evil.
  • Jordan Peterson wrote about this topic in his book "The Moral Landscape".
Jordan Peterson & Sam Harris Try to Find Something They Agree On | EP 408 038

Conference at the Institute

  • Jordan Peterson was at a conference at the Institute.
  • He said something disparaging about the Taliban in his remarks about the relationship between moral values and our growing scientific understanding of the human mind and human well-being.
  • He said that the Taliban don't have the optimal way of living perfectly.
  • A woman academic, who was later a scientific adviser to President Obama for medical ethics, came up to him and said that his opinion was just his opinion.
  • Jordan Peterson was shocked by the moral confusion and the lack of solid ground to stand on when making claims about right and wrong and good and evil.
Jordan Peterson & Sam Harris Try to Find Something They Agree On | EP 408 039

Moral Confusion

  • Many well-educated people make very fine grain distinctions about moral norms in the context of living in 21st century America.
  • They consider words to be violence and the misgendering of people to be a profound microaggression.
  • They are anchored to a belief that objectivity with respect to moral values is impossible.
  • They become tongue-tied when considering whether someone like Malala Yousafzai was badly treated by the Taliban.
  • Jordan Peterson was motivated to say that the smartest and most well-educated people in our society have become unmoored from any vision of objective moral values.
Jordan Peterson & Sam Harris Try to Find Something They Agree On | EP 408 041

The Problem with Morality

  • Jordan Peterson argues that morality is impossible and science will never have anything to say about it.
  • He believes that the distinction between religion and science is flawed, as science only talks about facts and religion talks about what should be.
  • Peterson argues that morality has to relate to the suffering and well-being of conscious creatures, and that there must be right answers to the question of how to navigate from the worst possible suffering to better places on the moral landscape.
  • He believes that beauty, creativity, and joy are facts-based discussions about science at every level that could be relevant to the conscious states of conscious minds.
  • Peterson argues that there is a need for a spirit of consilience across the domain of facts and values.
Jordan Peterson & Sam Harris Try to Find Something They Agree On | EP 408 042

The Incoherence of Postmodernism

  • Jordan Peterson points out the incoherence manifested by people who are upset about relatively minor issues but are incoherent in relationship to making broader scale moral claims.
  • He argues that postmodernism is fundamentally disallowance of the idea that any uniting meta narratives are possible.
  • Peterson believes that there is a need for a unifying narrative at any level of action and perception.
  • He argues that the postmodernists do not understand the hierarchy of uniting structure and that their arbitrarily chosen meta narratives do not bring about any action.
  • Peterson believes that the postmodernists do not understand the importance of a unifying narrative in organizing complex actions and bringing about any action whatsoever.
Jordan Peterson & Sam Harris Try to Find Something They Agree On | EP 408 044

The Problem with Postmodernism

  • Jordan Peterson argues that postmodernism is flawed because it does not understand the importance of a unifying narrative in organizing complex actions and bringing about any action whatsoever.
  • He believes that the postmodernists do not understand the hierarchy of uniting structure and that their arbitrarily chosen meta narratives do not bring about any action.
  • Peterson argues that the postmodernists do not understand the importance of a unifying narrative in organizing complex actions and bringing about any action whatsoever.
  • He believes that the postmodernists do not understand the importance of a unifying narrative in organizing complex actions and bringing about any action whatsoever.
  • Peterson argues that the postmodernists do not understand the importance of a unifying narrative in organizing complex actions and bringing about any action whatsoever.
Jordan Peterson & Sam Harris Try to Find Something They Agree On | EP 408 045

The Importance of a Unifying Narrative

  • Jordan Peterson argues that there is a need for a unifying narrative at any level of action and perception.
  • He believes that the postmodernists do not understand the importance of a unifying narrative in organizing complex actions and bringing about any action whatsoever.
  • Peterson argues that the postmodernists do not understand the importance of a unifying narrative in organizing complex actions and bringing about any action whatsoever.
  • He believes that the postmodernists do not understand the importance of a unifying narrative in organizing complex actions and bringing about any action whatsoever.
  • Peterson argues that the postmodernists do not understand the importance of a unifying narrative in organizing complex actions and bringing about any action whatsoever.
Jordan Peterson & Sam Harris Try to Find Something They Agree On | EP 408 046

The Meta Narrative

  • Jordan Peterson argues that there is a distinction between a narrative and a meta narrative.
  • He believes that a meta narrative is an arbitrary distinction and that one cannot attend or act without a unifying narrative.
  • Peterson points to the Taliban and Hamas as examples of groups that do not share our values and that we should not tolerate their intolerance.
  • He argues that tolerance on our own side is the uniting narrative.
  • Peterson believes that the postmodern insistence that there are no unifying meta narratives is a claim that there are power relations underlying every single form of human action and social interaction.
Jordan Peterson & Sam Harris Try to Find Something They Agree On | EP 408 048

The Unifying Narrative

  • Peterson points to the Taliban as an example of a group that does not share our values.
  • He argues that we can say with some degree of certainty that what the Taliban are doing is not optimal.
  • Peterson believes that the claim that we should tolerate the difference of opinion offered by the Taliban or Hamas is an appeal to tolerance one that they you know the Taliban and Hamas don't share right.
  • He argues that tolerance on our own side is the uniting narrative.
  • Peterson believes that the postmodern insistence that there are no unifying meta narratives is a claim that there are power relations underlying every single form of human action and social interaction.
Jordan Peterson & Sam Harris Try to Find Something They Agree On | EP 408 049

The Meta Narrative and the Unifying Narrative

  • Peterson points to the Taliban as an example of a group that does not share our values.
  • He argues that we can say with some degree of certainty that what the Taliban are doing is not optimal.
  • Peterson believes that the claim that we should tolerate the difference of opinion offered by the Taliban or Hamas is an appeal to tolerance one that they you know the Taliban and Hamas don't share right.
  • He argues that tolerance on our own side is the uniting narrative.
  • Peterson believes that the postmodern insistence that there are no unifying meta narratives is a claim that there are power relations underlying every single form of human action and social interaction.
Jordan Peterson & Sam Harris Try to Find Something They Agree On | EP 408 050

The Ethical Paradoxes

  • Peterson argues that most of human evil of the sort that he and I are now describing does not require the presence of actually evil people.
  • He believes that there are evil people, psychopaths and sadists, who for whom it is true to say that if evil means anything it should be applied to their conscious states and their psychology.
  • Peterson argues that so much of what we consider to be evil and so much so much of what produces needless human misery is the result of otherwise normal people psychologically behaving terribly because they believe fairly crazy and unsupportable things about what reality is and how they should live within it.
  • He believes that all jihadists or even most jihadists or all Nazis or even most Nazis are not psychopaths.
  • Peterson argues that the horror of these belief systems is that they is not that they act like bug lights for the world, Psychopaths and you and you attract a lot of people who would be doing terrible things anyway and they just happen to start doing it in this new context under the postmodern insistence that there are no unifying meta narratives.
Jordan Peterson & Sam Harris Try to Find Something They Agree On | EP 408 052

Section 1: Ideologies and Psychopathy

  • Islamic State's ideologies attract normal people who are convinced of the relevant dogma.
  • Pathological systems that produce rapid movement towards social and psychological pathology facilitate psychopathic behavior and attract psychopaths.
  • Both of these can operate at the same time, resulting in people being drawn into systems of ideas that motivate them to do things under the influence of other systems of ideas.
  • There can be virtues expressed towards evil ends, such as the guard at Auschwitz who enjoys his work.
  • Mental pleasure, though often taken as a sign of moral rightness, is not such a sign as there is such a thing as pathological ecstasy.
Jordan Peterson & Sam Harris Try to Find Something They Agree On | EP 408 053

Section 2: Systems of Ideas and Possession

  • Those systems of ideas are capable of possessing people who are indistinguishable from normal people.
  • Sometimes, these systems of ideas can be indistinguishable from people with all sorts of laudatory traits.
  • The possession of people by these systems of ideas is something that needs to be contended with.
  • The human mind is capable of being pointed in the wrong direction ethically and feeling very good about it.
  • The holidays are rapidly approaching, but peace and calm can be found in the craziness of the season with the help of the Hallow app.
Jordan Peterson & Sam Harris Try to Find Something They Agree On | EP 408 055

Section 3: The Hallow App

  • The Hallow app is the number one Christian Prayer app in the world.
  • It offers an extensive library of Bible reading plans accompanied by insightful reflections and audience-guided meditations.
  • It helps connect individuals with a community of like-minded individuals sharing experiences, insights, and encouragement along the path to spiritual growth.
  • The Hallow app also provides a platform for engaging with scripture like never before.
  • Father Mike Schmitz's Bible in a Year is available on the Hallow app, offering brief daily readings and reflections.
Jordan Peterson & Sam Harris Try to Find Something They Agree On | EP 408 056

Section 4: Christmas and the Real Reason for the Season

  • Advent with CS Lewis is a Christmas prayer challenge that focuses on the real reason for the season.
  • It involves prayer, meditation, and Christmas music on the Hallow app.
  • Joining the Hallow Christmas prayer challenge can help individuals focus on the true meaning of Christmas.
  • The Hallow app provides a great place to start for those who are just starting their spiritual journey.
  • Engaging with scripture and connecting with a community of like-minded individuals can lead to spiritual growth and a deeper understanding of the real reason for the season.
Jordan Peterson & Sam Harris Try to Find Something They Agree On | EP 408 057

The Influence of Systems of Ideas

  • Jordan Peterson discusses the influence of systems of ideas on people's behavior and motivation.
  • He believes that archetypes play a strong role in the action of systems of animating ideas.
  • He identifies the spirit that motivates people to act in a pathological direction as being possessed by archetypally evil ideas.
  • He believes that the religious impulse is a leveraged version of this, with the motivating idea being based on the supernatural and prophecy.
  • He argues that the possibility of religious justification for an unethical act elevates the status of the claim to morality associated with that evil act to the highest place.
Jordan Peterson & Sam Harris Try to Find Something They Agree On | EP 408 059

The Tower of Babel

  • Jordan Peterson discusses the story of the Tower of Babel and its moral lesson.
  • He believes that the moral of the story is that you can build pyramidal structures that reach to the sky that are predicated upon either false goals or false assumptions.
  • The consequence of this is the creation of a state of disunity and misery so comprehensive that people can no longer communicate with one another.
  • He sees this as a cautionary tale about the dangers of building systems based on false ideas.
  • He believes that the same principles apply to religious systems, where false beliefs can lead to division and suffering.
Jordan Peterson & Sam Harris Try to Find Something They Agree On | EP 408 060

The Role of Meditation

  • Jordan Peterson discusses the role of meditation in understanding the distinction between religious experience and dogmatic totalitarianism.
  • He believes that meditation can help people understand the difference between archetypes and false ideas.
  • He identifies the spirit that motivates people to act in a pathological direction as being possessed by archetypally evil ideas.
  • He believes that the religious impulse is a leveraged version of this, with the motivating idea being based on the supernatural and prophecy.
  • He argues that the possibility of religious justification for an unethical act elevates the status of the claim to morality associated with that evil act to the highest place.
Jordan Peterson & Sam Harris Try to Find Something They Agree On | EP 408 061

The Role of Religion in Terrorism

  • Jordan Peterson discusses the role of religion in terrorism and how it can be used to justify unethical acts.
  • He believes that the religious impulse is a leveraged version of the spirit that motivates people to act in a pathological direction.
  • He identifies the motivating idea of jihadism as being based on the supernatural and prophecy.
  • He believes that the possibility of religious justification for an unethical act elevates the status of the claim to morality associated with that evil act to the highest place.
  • He argues that the same principles apply to religious systems, where false beliefs can lead to division and suffering.
Jordan Peterson & Sam Harris Try to Find Something They Agree On | EP 408 063

The Dangers of Religious Beliefs

  • Jordan Peterson argues that religious beliefs can be used to justify bad actions.
  • Even with good intentions, it is possible to create immense harm without intending to do so.
  • Religious beliefs can create a sacred framing that magnifies the dangers of bad actions.
  • The worst case scenario is when people use religion to justify killing others.
  • It is possible to use religious beliefs to justify the actions of jihadists who blow up crowds of children.
Jordan Peterson & Sam Harris Try to Find Something They Agree On | EP 408 064

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