Chris Voss: FBI Hostage Negotiator | Lex Fridman Podcast #364

The video is a conversation between Lex Fridman and Chris Voss, a former FBI hostage and crisis negotiator, discussing the importance of understanding the feelings and perspectives of kidnappers in negotiations, as well as the challenges and ethical considerations involved in hostage negotiations.

The video is a podcast interview with Chris Voss, a former FBI hostage and crisis negotiator, and author of "Never Split the Difference: Negotiating as if Your Life Depended on It." Voss discusses his experiences negotiating with kidnappers and the importance of understanding the feelings and motivations of the "bad guys" in any negotiation. He also talks about the challenges of negotiating in difficult situations, such as when the kidnappers make impossible demands or refuse to communicate directly. Voss emphasizes the importance of empathy and understanding the other side's perspective in any negotiation, whether it's over a car, a house, or a hostage.

• Understanding kidnappers' feelings is key in negotiations.
• Challenges in negotiations include impossible demands and no communication.
• Bad guys often choose the media as their channel of choice for negotiations.
• The value of human life is subjective and depends on perspective.
• Empathy is important in negotiations and involves understanding the other person's perspective.
• Listening is the most important skill in negotiations.
• Hostage negotiations involve ethical considerations and balancing needs.
• Empathy is critical in hostage negotiations and can help de-escalate situations.
• Empathy involves understanding without necessarily agreeing or sympathizing.

Chris Voss: FBI Hostage Negotiator | Lex Fridman Podcast #364 - YouTube

The Importance of Understanding Kidnappers' Feelings

• The key to kidnapping negotiations is understanding the feelings of the kidnappers.
• Feelings drive everything in any human endeavor.
• Working with family members is crucial in kidnappings.
• Being honest with the family about the slim chances of success is important.
• Bad guys often choose the media as their channel of choice for negotiations.

The Challenges of Negotiating in Difficult Situations

• The toughest part of negotiating in a kidnapping situation is when it looks bad from the beginning.
• Factors that make it bad include impossible demands and no way to communicate with the kidnappers.
• Coaching family members and discussing how to approach things is important.
• Being honest with the family about the slim chances of success is important.
• Bad guys often choose the media as their channel of choice for negotiations.

Negotiating in Public vs. Private

• Bad guys often choose the media as their channel of choice for negotiations.
• Choosing the media as their channel of choice means they believe in the concept of good and bad media.
• Making it bad for them is important in negotiations.
• Public negotiations are possible when the kidnappers choose the media as their channel of choice.
• Appealing to the kidnappers' chosen channel is important in negotiations.

Chris Voss: FBI Hostage Negotiator | Lex Fridman Podcast #364 - YouTube

The Value of Human Life in Negotiations

• The value of human life is subjective and depends on the perspective of the other side.
• Empathy is in the eye of the beholder in any negotiation.
• Understanding the other side's perspective is crucial in any negotiation.
• Quantifying the value of human life is impossible.
• Being aware of the other side's perspective is important in negotiations.

The Value of Human Life in Kidnapping Negotiations

• Kidnappers tend to be good at figuring out how much money someone has and how quickly they can get it.
• The value of human life to kidnappers is based on what they can get.
• The key to kidnapping negotiations is understanding the feelings of the kidnappers.
• Feelings, not reason, drive everything in negotiations.
• There is no such thing as reason in negotiations.

The Role of Empathy in Negotiations

• People make up their minds based on what they care about.
• Reason is based on what you care about from the beginning.
• Empathy is about understanding where someone is coming from, not necessarily sharing the same thing.
• The tension between empathy and assertiveness is important in negotiations.
• Bob Wrightson's definition of empathy is not agreeing or even liking the other side.

The Importance of Listening in Negotiations

• Listening is the most important skill in negotiations.
• Listening is not just hearing what someone is saying, but understanding what they mean.
• Active listening involves summarizing what the other person is saying to show that you understand.
• Listening is a way to build rapport and trust with the other person.
• Listening can help you identify the other person's needs and motivations.

The Ethics of Hostage Negotiations

• Hostage negotiations involve ethical considerations, such as the safety of the hostages and the use of force.
• Hostage negotiators have to balance the needs of the hostages with the demands of the kidnappers.
• Hostage negotiators have to be careful not to make promises they can't keep.
• Hostage negotiators have to be aware of the psychological tactics that kidnappers use to manipulate them.
• Hostage negotiators have to be prepared for the worst-case scenario, such as a hostage being killed.

The Power of Empathy in Negotiations

• Understanding where the other person is coming from is a powerful tool in negotiations.
• Empathy requires no agreement or sympathy.
• Empathy can be used with anyone, even those with whom you disagree.
• Empathy involves demonstrating that you understand the other person's perspective.
• Empathy can help establish a bond with the other person.

The Importance of Empathy in Hostage Negotiations

• Empathy is critical in hostage negotiations.
• Empathy involves understanding the other person's beliefs and perspectives.
• Empathy does not require agreement or sympathy.
• Empathy can help establish a bond with the hostage-taker.
• Empathy can help de-escalate the situation and lead to a peaceful resolution.

The Difference Between Empathy and Sympathy/Compassion

• Empathy involves understanding the other person's perspective without necessarily agreeing or sympathizing with them.
• Sympathy and compassion involve feeling sorry for the other person or agreeing with their perspective.
• Empathy is a powerful tool in negotiations, while sympathy and compassion can be useless.
• There is a gray area where a drop of compassion can help make empathy more effective.
• Empathy involves signaling that you are on the same side as the other person without necessarily agreeing with them.

The Challenges of Demonstrating Empathy in Adversarial Situations

• Demonstrating empathy in highly adversarial situations can be challenging.
• Simply signaling that you are on the same side as the other person can come across as disingenuous.
• Empathy involves understanding the other person's perspective without necessarily agreeing or sympathizing with them.
• Empathy can help establish a bond with the other person, but it must be done in a genuine way.
• Empathy can be a powerful tool in negotiations, but it requires practice and skill to use effectively.

Importance of Empathy in Negotiations

• Empathy is important in negotiations.
• Empathy does not mean being on the same side as the other person.
• A great deal and a great conversation are often the same thing.
• There are times when it is necessary to say that we are on the same side.
• Tom Girardi was a good negotiator who always talked about a point in the future where both parties are happy.

Painting a Vision of the Future

• People make decisions based on their vision of the future.
• Painting a vision of the future that the other person will like is important.
• It is important to find out what the other person's vision of the future is.
• Removing yourself as a threat can help in negotiations.
• Collaboration is important in negotiations.

Challenges in Negotiations

• There are ethical considerations in negotiations.
• It is important to be honest in negotiations.
• Integrity is important in negotiations.
• It is important to ensure that both parties benefit from the negotiation.
• It is important to ensure that negotiations do not harm anyone.

Lessons from Hostage Negotiations

• Empathy is important in hostage negotiations.
• It is important to understand the feelings and perspectives of kidnappers in negotiations.
• It is important to ensure the safety of hostages in negotiations.
• It is important to build rapport with kidnappers in negotiations.
• It is important to be patient in negotiations.

Importance of Empathy in Negotiations

• Understanding the feelings and perspectives of kidnappers in negotiations is important.
• Empathy puts you in a position to assert.
• Timing is everything in negotiations.
• Active listening is actually proactive listening.
• Tactical empathy is calibrated emotional intelligence.

Deactivating Negativity

• The brain is largely negative.
• Calling out negativity deactivates it.
• Neuroscience experiments have shown that calling out negativity deactivates it.
• Acknowledging negativity ahead of time can help to reduce its impact.
• Identifying negative emotions can help to reduce their intensity.

Sequencing and Priority in Listening

• Truly listening to another person requires proactive listening.
• Anticipating where somebody is going helps to dial in your listening.
• Timing is everything in negotiations.
• Listening is a sequencing issue.
• Empathy puts you in a position to assert.

Calibrated Emotional Intelligence

• Tactical empathy is calibrated emotional intelligence.
• Emotional intelligence is calibrated by what we know about neuroscience.
• The brain is largely negative.
• Calling out negativity deactivates it.
• Timing is everything in negotiations.

Definition of Negotiation

• Negotiation is seeking collaboration.
• Closure puts a finality to it.
• Implementation is always a problem in any negotiation.
• Yeses are aspirational and usually counterfeit.
• It's only temporary aspiration.

Why Talk to Chris Voss?

• Chris Voss is a fascinating human being.
• Exploring the mind of an interesting person is what Lex Fridman loves doing with his podcast.
• It's not about looking at resumes and credentials.
• It's about noticing a person and exploring their world view.
• It's thought-provoking to talk to someone with a vastly different world view who is happy and flourishing.

Exploring the Elephant in the Room

• There's a difference between conversations and negotiations.
• Negotiation ultimately seeks closure and resolution.
• Conversations are more about exploring ideas.
• It's a tough choice to avoid or lean into the emotional and psychological things that kidnappers are going through.
• It's the elephant in the room and it's an alpha in the room.

The Brain is Generally Cynical

• The brain is generally cynical.
• The pessimistic caveman survived and we're descendants of the pessimists.
• Optimism is important for building things.
• Both people can win in negotiations.
• It's easy to paint a picture of a future where both people win if you're optimistic about that future.

Policy of Negotiating with Terrorists

• The policy of not negotiating with terrorists is not accurate.
• The policy was signed in 2002 by Bush 43 as National Security Presidential Directive nspd12.
• The policy states that concessions will not be made, but communication is allowed.
• Every president has made some bone-headed deal with the bad guys.
• Obama released five high-level Taliban leaders from Guantanamo in exchange for an AWOL soldier.

Negotiating with Global Leaders

• The recent negotiation over prisoners with Vladimir Putin was a political negotiation.
• The US government should not abandon its citizens.
• There should have been a negotiation for Brittany Griner's release.
• Governments want to make deals, but they should not put terrorists back on the battlefield.
• Meeting in person for negotiations is a great idea.

Switching from Survival to Success Mindset

• The success mindset is highly optimistic.
• Switching from survival to success mindset is a challenge.
• Humans stopped being eaten by saber-toothed tigers and started building things.
• Humans started collaborating and stopped listening to their amygdala.
• Humans started listening to their gut.

Ethical Considerations in Hostage Negotiations

• Understanding the feelings and perspectives of kidnappers is important in negotiations.
• Hostage negotiations involve ethical considerations.
• Hostage negotiators need to balance the safety of hostages with the demands of kidnappers.
• Hostage negotiators need to be aware of the psychological tactics used by kidnappers.
• Hostage negotiators need to build rapport with kidnappers to establish trust.

The Importance of Empathy in Negotiation

• Getting people together in person has always been a good idea.
• The documentary "The Human Factor" shows how getting people together in person can lead to peace.
• Empathy is essential in achieving peace through negotiation.
• Compassion can also be helpful in negotiation.
• When someone feels completely understood, they bond with the person who understands them.

The Neuroscience of Epiphany

• When someone feels completely understood, they bond with the person who understands them.
• Oxytocin is a bonding drug that inclines people to tell the truth.
• Serotonin is the neurochemical satisfaction of epiphany.
• Feeling understood leads to bonding, honesty, and satisfaction.
• Empathy leads to bonding, honesty, and satisfaction in negotiation.

The Power of Intimacy in Negotiation

• Getting in a room together and really talking is essential in negotiation.
• When world leaders meet, it's important to have intimacy and power in the conversation.
• Intimacy can be achieved by meeting one-on-one without a third person in the room.
• Empathy coupled with intimacy leads to successful negotiation.
• Forgetting about cameras and other distractions is important in achieving intimacy.

The Challenges of Negotiating with Hostage Takers

• Hostage takers are often emotionally unstable and unpredictable.
• Hostage takers often have a distorted view of reality.
• Hostage takers often have a sense of desperation and hopelessness.
• Hostage negotiators must build rapport and trust with the hostage taker.
• Hostage negotiators must understand the hostage taker's perspective and feelings.

Importance of in-person communication

• There is a deep intimacy that happens in in-person communication.
• Energy and feel are present in in-person communication that cannot be replicated virtually.
• Virtual reality is being explored to replicate in-person communication.
• Traveling for communication is not always feasible.
• There is a difference between hearing and speaking the same words.

The meaning of "that's right"

• "That's right" means that what was just heard is believed to be the truth.
• Donald Trump is an example of someone who elicits "that's right" responses from his followers.
• "That's right" is a bonding moment that creates oxytocin.
• Donald Trump destroys the idea of common ground.
• Donald Trump is not a good negotiator, but a great marketer.

North Korea Negotiations

• Chris Voss's track record with North Korea
• Opening dialogue with North Korea was masterful
• Trump Administration inherited a can of worms
• Nothing happened after the fanfare
• No deal was made

Psychology and Negotiations

• Psychology is a soft science
• Individual people are more complicated than psychology categories
• Classifying someone as a narcissist or depressed gives an excuse not to empathize with them
• Each person wants to be understood and heard
• Convenient way of thinking to ignore the fact that someone is a human being

Negotiating with Terrorists

• Hostage negotiators are successful 93% of the time
• Walking away depends on whether it's done with integrity or as a tactic
• Some deals are never going to be made
• It's not a sin to not get the deal, it's a sin to take a long time to not get the deal

Best Negotiators

• Great negotiators make deals
• Listening is the cheapest concession you can make
• Empathy is the cheapest concession you can make
• People want to be understood and heard
• People want to feel safe

High Risk Indicators

• Gary realized there was something called suicide by cop.
• He wrote a block of instruction called high risk indicators.
• High risk indicators meant if you start seeing this stuff show up, things are probably going bad.
• You need to recognize that from the very beginning and adjust accordingly.
• It's the same way in business and personal life.

Confronting People on Their Behavior

• Confront people on their behavior in a respectful way.
• Signal that you're willing to walk away and mean it a thousand percent.
• It could be walking away from a lot of money or something that's going to hurt people.
• If they're not going to let the hostage go, suicide by cop, they let them go.
• The bad guys were never there to make a deal in the first place if it was suicide by cop.

Killing Journey

• If they're on a killing journey and the actions that they're currently engaged in are part of that killing journey.
• Is there advice you can give about Israel-Palestine and the Middle East?
• There's hope and friends on both sides.
• Let's start from the promise that we both sides want a better life for our kids.
• Both sides ultimately want it to be better for their kids.

Leadership and Hope

• Regardless of how compromised they might be on either side, there are few straight players in the game in the Middle East or anywhere for that matter.
• They want a better future for their kids.
• You get people to agree that you want a better future for your kids.
• Now you start talking about how to make it better.
• Leadership is about creating hope.

Israeli-Palestinian Negotiations

• Israel shelled Gaza due to rocket attacks from Hamas.
• Hamas stores weapons in places like schools and hospitals.
• A friend hosted a Clubhouse room to discuss the conflict.
• Participants had to state the other side's position before disagreeing.
• The conversation did not devolve into screaming matches.

Benefits of Understanding the Other Side

• People can have conversations without vitriol.
• Clubhouse exercise helped people see the other side's perspective.
• Articulating the other side's position is beneficial to the speaker.
• It helps level out the conversation and reduce emotional intensity.
• It can be used in face-to-face conversations as well.

Challenges in Negotiations

• Hostage negotiations involve ethical considerations.
• Hostage takers may have different goals and motivations.
• It is important to understand their feelings and perspectives.
• Empathy can help build rapport and trust.
• It is important to establish a mutual point in the future.

Effective Negotiation Techniques

• Active listening is crucial in negotiations.
• It is important to acknowledge the other side's feelings and concerns.
• Open-ended questions can help gather information and build rapport.
• Summarizing the other side's position can help build trust.
• Using calibrated questions can help guide the conversation.

Importance of Empathy in Negotiations

• Understanding the feelings and perspectives of the other side is transformative for both people involved in a process.
• Articulating deeply what the other side feels is important.
• Empathy is the key to successful negotiations.
• Learning empathy is the hard way.
• Empathy doesn't work at home if you've never gotten out of shoe.

Toughest Negotiation Experienced

• The toughest negotiation was without Qaeda in and around Iraq and Saudi.
• The hardest part was working with family members and not deceiving them about the possibility outcome.
• Empathy is important when talking to family members.
• Shuhari concept is important in negotiations.
• Repetition is important in negotiations.

Learning Negotiation Techniques

• Shuhari concept is important in negotiations.
• Repetition is important in negotiations.
• Empathy is the key to successful negotiations.
• Empathy is important in suicide hotline negotiations.
• Empathy is important in negotiations with families.

Watch the video on YouTube:
Chris Voss: FBI Hostage Negotiator | Lex Fridman Podcast #364 - YouTube